FINISHED FILE

NATIONAL DISABILITY INSTITUTE
REPORTING BUSINESS ACTIVITY FOR SSDI/MEDICARE
OCTOBER 18, 2023
2:00 P.M. ET

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>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Greetings.  Hello one and all.  Welcome, welcome.  So glad you are joining us today, this morning or afternoon, depending where you are in the country.  My name is Molly Sullivan.  I am going to wait for a few more people to roll in.  I actually see some familiar faces in our Zoom today.  It's great to see those of you who I have had an opportunity to connect with before.  And welcome to those who are new and haven't been to one of our webinars yet.  
It would be great if you all would be willing to put a little message in the Chat box, if you are comfortable.  Don't feel like you need to.  Just let us know where you are joining from.  
Again, I will get us started in about 30 seconds or so, another few seconds for people to join.  
Great.  We've got Jill from New Mexico, we've got folks from Seattle.  Hello to Michele and Jessica.  Good to see you here.  Jennifer is joining from Denver, someone from Indiana, so great.  Folks from all over, Virginia, California, all across the country.  Wonderful.  
Well, it's great to have you all here.  I realize a webinar that has anything to do with Social Security benefits doesn't usually get people excited.  But my hope is to share some information with you today that will be helpful, and I will do my best to make it interesting and maybe exciting.  I will give it a go.  
So I am just going to get us rolling with a few housekeeping logistical items, then I'll dig into the meat of our time together today.  
So the audio for today's webinar can be accessed using computer audio or by calling in by phone.  If you use Computer Audio, please make sure your speakers are turned on or your headphones are plugged in.  
To call in for audio, you'll need to dial 301‑715‑8592, and the meeting code is 833 9840 0457.  
An ASL interpreter will have a spotlight throughout the presentation.  So for the best viewing experience, please navigate to the Speaker View using the options at the top right of your screen.  For realtime captioning, which is provided, you'll want to click the CC button in the Zoom control panel at the bottom of your screen.  If you don't see the captions after clicking the CC button, just alert the host via the Chat box.  
So please send any questions, concerns, or any requests you have for technical assistance to the host via the chat box.  Questions will be addressed by me, your presenter, as time allows.  I actually do have set aside some key points where I think questions will come up, so just pop your questions in the chat box and know that I will be pausing at different moments to answer questions.  
If you would prefer to ask your question in ASL, please raise your hand and then just wait to be called on by the host.  
And if your question is not answered during the webinar or if you are listening by phone or are unable to use the Chat box, then please just email your question to ajones@ndi‑inc.org.  
I also want to let you know that the webinar is being recorded, and the materials for this webinar, including this PowerPoint, will be available at www.DisabilitySmallBusiness.org on the Past Events page within one to two weeks.  
And one other logistic, just to let you know, is you'll notice that I pause for a few seconds at the beginning of every slide during this presentation.  And I do that to provide everybody an opportunity to scan over the information on the PowerPoint slide before I dive in.  
All right.  Well, those were kind of the key logistics.  So hello.  It's good to see everybody.  Welcome to today's session, which is titled Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Reporting Business Activity for SSDI and Medicare.  As I mentioned, my name is Molly Sullivan, and I am with an organization called Griffin‑Hammis Associates, which we call GHA for short.  GHA is an organization that has been providing training and technical support for over 30 years to organizations who provide support to people with disabilities across the spectrum to become small business owners.  
I am joined about I my incredible colleague, Sierra Ladroma.  Sierra is going to be monitoring throughout the webinar.  On that note, if you haven't opened the Chat box, please do.  You can do that by clicking on the Chat icon at the bottom of your Zoom control, your Zoom window, which is your Zoom control panel.  And then please use the Chat to ask questions, share ideas, leave comments, just engage with us.  We'd love to hear from you and want to make sure we address what you've come to learn.  

So we'll stop, as I mentioned, for Q&A at some kind of key points.  And I already mentioned, please pop your questions in the Chat box, and then I'll tackle those at kind of key points.  Lastly, we want to thank the U.S. Small Business Administration and the National Disability Institute in leading this community navigator pilot program, which creates a space for this webinar.  I do want to also note that while the webinar is funded by the U.S. Small Business Administration, all the opinions and conclusions, all the recommendations that we express here are those of ours and don't necessarily reflect the views of the SBA.  
At the end of the webinar, we are going to share information with you about upcoming events, and the National Disability Institute team will share information with you about resources that they have on their small business hub website.  
Okay.  So that's it for welcome.  So I am going to go ahead and move us on and take ‑‑ I'll give you a quick little overview of what we have in store for our time together today.  
So the focus for today's webinar is about reporting self‑employment activity for the sake of the SSDI benefit, which stands for Social Security Disability Insurance.  And the Medicare that comes along with it.  
To tackle this topic, what I am going to do is take just a few minutes to make sure everybody knows what I mean when I say SSDI, and then ‑‑ and also the Medicare that comes along with it.  And then we'll look at what to report, when to report, and how to report self‑employment activity.  
Once we've covered those topics, I'll just touch base about some key tips that we recommend for reporting and managing SSDI when self‑employed.  
So while the agenda looks visually short, it's actually, there's some pretty big topics embedded throughout there, woven throughout there, so I am really going to stay focused on sharing information with you about SSDI and, as needed, the Medicare information and reporting around self‑employment.  What that means is I won't be going into any of the details around Supplemental Security Income, which is the other cash benefit Social Security administers for people who have a disability, nor will I be going into Medicaid, which is a different type of health insurance.  But I do want to take just a minute and share some ways that you can learn more about those benefits as well as a few of the topics I am going to be touching on today.  I am going to do my best to answer your questions, but as we go through the content, you are going to find that there are some topics that are really big enough for their very own webinar, and we have actually created a lot of those webinars that are available.  So I just want to make you aware of what else is out there.  

So for starters, I'd like to point out that we have more webinars about benefits and self‑employment.  This webinar is actually part of the series that we started last year and that we are actually finishing up today.  Today is the last webinar in our Benefits and Self‑Employment series.  
Last year, in 2022, we actually ended up doing five webinars related to benefits and self‑employment.  The first one was just a real basic overview of public benefits, explaining, for example, what Social Security Disability Insurance is, what Medicare is, what Supplemental Security Income is, sort of laying the foundation for what these different disability benefits are.  
The second webinar was about common business structures and some of the key considerations in choosing a business structure when you receive a public disability benefit.  
The third webinar was about Social Security's Plan to Achieve Self‑Support, which we call PASS for short.  That webinar looked at how PASS can help some people pay for business start‑up expenses.  
The fourth webinar was about self‑employment resource exclusions, which explained ways to get business assets, like bank accounts and equipment, excluded from financial need‑based benefit programs through some special exclusions, like property essential to self‑support and ABLE accounts.  
The fifth webinar was about net earnings from self‑employment and how that's calculated.  Now, I am actually going to be touching on that topic today.  We are going to do a quick review on that topic.  But I want you to know we have an entire webinar about it.  So at a certain point during our time together when I am talking about net earnings from self‑employment and you think, oh, gosh, I wish I could get a little bit more info about this, we've got a whole webinar about that topic.  
Okay.  So then in 2023, just briefly I'll say we've done three more webinars around benefits and self‑employment.  And these are really good, meaty ones.  We did one that was about the effect of net earnings from self‑employment on SSI.  We did one that covered the effect of net earnings from self‑employment on SSDI, which is also a topic I am going to briefly touch on today.  And then last month we did a webinar on reporting self‑employment activity for SSI.  And then, of course, today we are doing one that's about reporting self‑employment for SSDI.  
For all of those past webinars, you can access them on the disability small business Hub's website, and Ciara, it would be ‑‑ Ciara, it would be amazing if you could drop a link to where they can access those past recordings.  
So while it's true that webinars are a great way to build your knowledge ‑‑ no doubt about it.  Love that you are here and build your knowledge.  Don't stop doing that.  What I would also say that it can be difficult to take what you learn in a webinar and apply it to your individual situation.  And part of that is having worked with public disability benefits for several years, I can say it's sometimes complicated.  It can sometimes feel difficult to figure out what does this rule or what does this tip mean to me.  So I want to take just a couple minutes and just check in about one other kind of resource that I want to make sure you know how to access and use, and that was getting some help, one‑on‑one help, from a benefit planner to help you understand how to report, understand the effects of self‑employment work on your specific benefits.  
So what's a benefit planner?  A benefit planner is a professional that generally works for a nonprofit organization, potentially a state agency, some kind of an employment agency or employment program, and specializes in understanding these public disability benefit work rules, like the SSDI work rules and the SSI work rules.  Now, benefit planners go by a handful of different names.  They have different job titles.  You could work with a benefit planner whose job title is a Community Work Incentives Coordinator, or whose job title is Benefits Counselor.  Or whose job title is Work Incentive Counselor.  Regardless of the title, these professionals provide one‑on‑one counseling for people with disabilities about potential changes to benefits when working and also information about how to report work to the public benefit agencies.  And that includes self‑employment work, not just wage employment work.  
Now, in every state, there is at least one benefit planning program called a Work Incentives Planning and Assistance program, which we call WIPA for short.  You can find the WIPA project in your area by using the "find help" feature on a website, which is choosework.ssa.gov.  Or you can find out who your WIPA project is and how to contact them by calling 1‑866‑968‑7842.  Or you can use the TTY number, which is 1‑866‑833‑2967.  
Now, I do want to let you know that in some states, the state Vocational Rehabilitation agency may also provide some benefits planning services, so if you or if you are supporting someone who is working with the state Vocational Rehabilitation agency, it would be great to check in with the VR counselor about the resources that they have available to support with benefits counseling services.  
Another option is to contact your local Center for Independent Living and ask if they provide help with benefits planning or if they know of any agencies or organizations that provide help in your area.  Some CILs do have benefit planners on staff, but if they don't, they do generally know how to access that kind of service in your area.  And there's a link on the slide that goes to the national directory on Centers for Independent Living.  
So in summary, I guess what I want to make sure you understand is that there's a number of ways you can go about continuing to build your knowledge around how to report for SSDI, and you can even reach out for some help from a benefit planner to understand how all these details apply to you and your situation.  
So as you listen to the information I share during this webinar, rather than feeling like, oh, I've got to understand every little bit, just take in what you can.  Grasp some new details you hadn't heard before.  And if you are someone who is receiving benefits, make a point of trying to reach out and locate a benefit planner to help you think through your specific situation.  
Okay.  All of that great foundation being said, I'd like to support you in building your knowledge around reporting self‑employment activity for SSDI.  And to do that, I want to give just a brief review on what SSDI is and what the Medicare is that comes along with it.  And the reason that I want to just take a couple minutes to do that is to make sure you are clear what benefit this webinar is about.  Social Security administers two different kinds of cash benefits, if you experience a disability, and the one we are talking about today is Social Security Disability Insurance.  Just want to make sure we are all on the same page about what that is.  And then we'll move on to the details about reporting.  
All right.  Well Social Security Disability Income is called SSDI for short.  It is a monthly cash benefit, and it's based on a person's previous work and earnings.  And it's administered by Social Security, which is the fact that it's based on previous work and earnings is why it's considered an insurance benefit.  
Now, there are two basic eligibility rules for SSDI.  First, a person must meet Social Security's definition of disability.  Or blindness.  One or the other.  And for that particular criteria, I think it's helpful to think of SSDI as being a long‑term disability insurance benefit.  And I say that because the person's disability, to be eligible, the disability must be expected to last 12 months or longer or it would need to be terminal to be eligible.  So that's the first eligibility criteria.  
The second is, to be eligible for SSDI, is that the person must have worked and reached what's called "insured status."  And what that means sort of a simple level, is that the person must have worked and paid in enough to the Social Security Trust Fund.  Since this is not a webinar about SSDI eligibility, I am going to kind of keep it at that high level.  But you can read more about SSDI eligibility if you'd like on a Social Security publication that actually does a nice job of describing some of those details, and that public is just called "Disability Benefits."  So Ciara, it would be great if you could drop a link to that publication in the chat box for people who are interested in getting a little more familiar with what it means to be eligible for SSDI.  
Now, once a person's found eligible for the SSDI benefit, the benefit amount itself is going to be based on the person's previous work record, their lifetime earnings.  And so as a result of that, the benefit amount varies from one person to another.  Someone who has had a shorter or a lower work record may have a benefit ‑‑ SSDI benefit that's $300 a month.  And someone who has worked for years and years and years and made a lot of money every year could have a $3,000 SSDI benefit.  The maximum SSDI benefit payment this year is ‑‑ it's around $3600, just to kind of give you a sense of the benefit.  So the amount varies from person to person.  
So the reality with this and, really, all the other benefits, is that the names of them can be kind of confusing, and so it can be a little bit tricky to get a sense of what benefit you are receiving or, if you are supporting someone, what benefit they are receiving.  And that's just the nature because of these benefit programs being complicated, and some of them, their names sound the same, which is not helpful.  So I highly recommend that if you are someone who is going to start working and you are gathering all this knowledge to make sure you understand what's going to happen to your benefits and to know how to report, that you begin by confirming which benefit you have.  And you can confirm the type of benefit a couple of different ways.  If you have set up a my Social Security account, you can look in and look at it there.  You can also call Social Security and ask them to tell you what type of benefit you receive.  Or you could look at a recent letter.  Some of the letters will say what benefit type a person has.  
So that's really the basics of what SSDI is.  It's a disability insurance benefit that's based on the fact that a person worked and paid in.  
Okay.  So I just want to briefly check in about what Medicare is.  
Okay.  So Medicare is a financial health insurance program.  And Social Security handles the eligibility side of Medicare, but then really everything else falls under the responsibility of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, CMS.  To be eligible for Medicare, a person has to fall into an eligibility group, one of a handful that are available.  The eligibility group most people know about is being 65 years of age or older, and that's really the vast majority of people who get Medicare fall under that eligibility group.  But for the sake of our time together, I want you to know about the Medicare eligibility group for people who receive SSDI.  So what you might not know, but if you don't now you do know, if you receive Social Security Disability Income, SSDI, it comes with Medicare.  Having SSDI is a Medicare eligibility group.  
Now, you are not able to get the Medicare until you've been entitled to SSDI for 24 months, so there is a waiting period.  But once that 24‑month waiting period has been met, Medicare will automatically begin.  And if a person who is receiving SSDI has the Medicare, if they go to work, there are also some work incentives that allow that person to keep the Medicare even if the SSDI stops.  As long as the person continues to have a disability, they could actually continue to keep that Medicare.  
So you can actually read a bit more about Medicare and who is eligible for it on another ‑‑ separate Social Security publication that's called just simply "Medicare."  So Ciara, if you can drop that one in the Chat box, that would be great as well.  
So if you are not sure if maybe you have this benefit or not, you can also easily find out which one you have, if you have this, by calling the Medicare toll‑free number, which is 1‑800‑Medicare.  Or if you have a Medicare account set up, you can log in and confirm that you have it.  With all these benefits, it's really helpful to confirm what you have so that as you begin learning about the different rules, you are clear about which benefit program rules you need to learn about.  
All right.  So I am going to do this.  We are going to look at an example of a person who ‑‑ example person who is eligible for SSDI and Medicare, and I will check in for questions, then we'll move on to reporting.  
Okay.  So our example person is Jana.  In this scenario, Jana worked for over 10 years full‑time as a cashier.  Then when she was 32, around 32 years of age, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and she had to stop working because of it.  She applied for SSDI and was found eligible.  And the SSDI amount that she receives, this scenario person Jana, receives $1300 a month of SSDI.  So you can see in this example that Jana met the two basic eligibility criteria.  She was found to meet Social Security's definition of disability, and that was based on her diagnosis of multiple sclerosis; and the second criteria she met, she had worked for over ten years full‑time and paid into the Social Security Trust Fund.  So she reached insured status.  So because she met those two criteria, she was found eligible for SSDI.  
Now, her SSDI amount, which is $1300, is based on her past work record, having worked for ten years full‑time.  
Now, the last bullet on the slide tells us that Jana also has Medicare.  And you learned that a person who is eligible for SSDI gets Medicare.  They just have to serve a 24‑month waiting period.  And so Jana became eligible for SSDI three years ago, so she already served that 24‑month waiting period, and so Medicare has started for her.  
Okay.  So hopefully you have a clear sense of what the SSDI benefit is and that it comes with Medicare.  I do want to just pause before I switch us over to reporting for self‑employment and see if there are any questions in the chat box just about what is SSDI, who is getting this, what this benefit is.  Ciara, any questions in the chat box for me on that one?  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Hey there, this is Ciara speaking.  Molly, I don't think we have any questions now, so I think we are good to keep going.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Perfect.  Great.  Then let's shift, and let's dig into what it means to report, what you need to report for the sake of the SSDI benefit when you are self‑employed.  
Okay.  So on slide ‑‑ this slide here, slide 11, what I've got for you is just a brief overview.  It's a list of the key things that SSDI beneficiaries who are self‑employed should plan to report to Social Security.  So I'll give you a quick overview of that list right now, but what I want you to know is that we are going to dig into each one of these in slides coming up next.  
So let me give you a quick overview.  Okay.  So when a person receiving SSDI opens their business, they'll need to contact Social Security and just share a brief description of this business and share what they are projecting as their net earnings from self‑employment for the first year in business.  
Now, in regards to when the business opens, generally for Social Security purposes, a business opens when it begins doing the operations that it was set up for.  So let's go back to our example of Jana.  Let's say that Jana got ‑‑ let's say she just completed school, she got a degree as a graphic designer.  And she is, you know, spending a few months doing some planning, kind of getting things in order because she's planning to be a graphic designer in a self‑employment way.  So she is going to be a self‑employed graphic designer.  
So she takes a few months to do some business planning and to set up a business bank account and a few other start‑up activities, like you know, getting insurance and such.  So she's finally ready to start marketing her services and working with clients.  So in that situation, the month that she begins marketing and bringing in new clients is usually, often, when the business is considered open.  Because that's really when the self‑employment work activity has started.  Before that, it wasn't really self‑employment work activity.  It was just planning and getting ready to open a business.  
Now, if you or someone you support are feeling a little unsure about whether ‑‑ when the business is considered open, sort of when do I need to call and report, you can always just contact Social Security and say hey, this is what I am doing.  I haven't actually started marketing or offering services or selling products.  Or when you have, you would say, and this is when I started offering and marketing services is when I think the business opened.  And you can just sort of talk through your situation with them if it feels fuzzy at all.  Some situations are really clear‑cut.  Some are a little fuzzy.  But sort of the general rule of thumb is once you have actually starting trying to sell and you are receiving income, that's usually when it's considered the business is open for the sake of benefit purposes.  
So after making this initial report to say hey, this is my business and this is what I am thinking I am going to be making, on an ongoing basis, there are some important things that someone who receives SSDI should plan to report to Social Security.  The first one is giving a copy of the business tax return, once it's filed with the IRS, giving a copy of that to Social Security.  Social Security needs that business tax return to confirm how much the person's earnings actually ended up being the previous year.  
The second ongoing activity is to complete the Social Security work activity report, called the SSA‑820, when Social Security sends it.  When they want you to fill it out and give them more details, that's an ongoing activity that can happen.  And I am actually going to share a good chunk of information on that in a couple of slides.  And lastly, it's important to report changes in financial situations.  This is especially important if a person's net earnings from self‑employment are going to be either going above the Substantial Gainful Activity level or they are going to fall below that Substantial Gainful Activity level.  I am going to talk a lot more about that in a few slides as well, but just for your reference, that Substantial Gainful Activity level this year is $1470 a month, $2460 for a person who has blindness.  Again, I will dig more into that in just a little bit.  
Now, since Social Security manages eligibility for Medicare, the great news is that when you report for the sake of SSDI, you are essentially reporting for the sake of your Medicare eligibility.  So you are taking care of both things.  If you are someone who is receiving some financial assistance, paying for Medicare out‑of‑pocket expenses like Medicare premiums or co‑insurance and deductible out‑of‑pocket expenses, those programs are administered by the state Medicaid agencies.  And so those agencies you would just need to follow whatever their reporting requirements are.  I am afraid we can't tackle that as a part of this particular webinar because it's different in every state.  So if you receive any benefits from your state Medicaid agency, it's important when you begin working or you are planning to start working to learn about their reporting requirements as well.  If you feel a little unsure how to navigate, how to do that, I would suggest reaching out to a benefit planner.  They would be super helpful for that.  
Okay.  What I would like to do, I am going to hold off for checking on questions.  I am going to move us on, dig into our first topic on this overview, which is reporting when the business opens, a description of the business.  
Okay.  So when the business opens, as I mentioned, it is important for someone who is receiving SSDI to report the start of that business to Social Security.  And when you report the start of the business, essentially what you are doing is you are giving some basic information about what this business is.  So on slide 12, I've got a list of some of the core details, the kinds of things that you just want to be prepared to share.  And that includes the name of the business, you want to share what that is.  And a brief description of what the business does.  You know, for Jana, she would be saying, you know, I am going to be a self‑employed graphic designer.  I am going to be selling my services as a graphic designer.  
It would also be good to share the business structure.  And what I mean by that is is the business set up as a sole proprietorship?  Is it set up as a partnership or a limited liability company or a corporation?  And kind of along those same lines, the other thing that Social Security will want to know is if there are any co‑owners in the business and if you share in any of the profits.  And that's important for them to know as it relates to your earnings.  You know, so if I am ‑‑ if I am going into business with my spouse, for example, and we are doing equal work in the business and we are going to split the profits 50/50, then I'd want Social Security to know that so that when they look at my business, the business tax return, they know, oh, 50% of the net profit really is for Molly, and 50% is for the spouse.  It's helpful for them to know if there's co‑owners and what the division of profits will be.  
So Social Security could ask for some additional information, like what's the address of the business, what's the phone number of the business, but really, those are some of the core details that I just suggest you be prepared to share.  
So how do you report this information?  There's no specific form.  They don't have, like, a self‑employment form that you fill out that says I'm new to being self‑employed, and here's some initial information.  Instead, you would ‑‑ you've got a couple ways you could do this initial report.  You can call Social Security, either the national toll‑free number or the local office, and communicate, I've opened a business, and here are some details about it.  And you could also go to your local office and communicate in person what's going on.  That's another option you could do.  And lastly, another option you could do is you could write out the specific details of your business description on this form, the SSA form 795, which is really just like an official blank piece of paper, best way I can describe it.  Literally, it's just like a blank piece of paper and a place for the person to sign saying this is the information I am giving you as a place for the person to put their claim number and the date as well.  So you could put the description of the business information on there.  That's another option.  Most people call or go into their local office, depending on where they live in proximity to the local Social Security office and how busy the local office is.  
Now, I realize that this, you know, communicating a description of the business is pretty straightforward.  But I do want to just pause and check in and see if there are any questions in the Chat box.  Ciara, is there anything that's come in that I should tackle?  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Hey there, this is Ciara speaking.  So Molly, we do have a couple of questions, and then I do just want to share that all questions are welcome.  But if there is a little bit more of an individualized answer or conversation that needs to happen, please reach out to us, and we will go ahead and get that more private conversation happening outside the webinar.  
Let's go ahead with the first question.  Do we still have to send tax returns even if we don't make anything for the year?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: That's a great question.  I would recommend doing that.  I would.  And in part I would recommend you do that because it's a way of documenting the amount of self‑employment activity you are or are not doing.  
If your local office tells you don't do that, then you don't need to do that.  But by default, it's good to do.  I would recommend it.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Thank you.  Another question we've got that I think relates to an older slide is what does it mean receiving SSDI dates of disability?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: What does it mean receiving SSDI ‑‑ I think what that might be referring to was a slide that was talking about when Medicare begins.  And so when you are found eligible for SSDI, there is an SSDI entitlement date, and the entitlement date is the official date the SSDI starts.  Sometimes it can take a little bit for the payments to start coming from Social Security, but the official start date for an SSDI benefit is called an "entitlement date," and Medicare will start 24 months after that SSDI entitlement date.  I think that may be what that was about.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: This is Ciara speaking again.  Do we have time for one more question, Molly?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Let's ‑‑ yeah, let's do one more question.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Okay.  A question from Tiffany:  What do you do if you haven't reported for a few years because you didn't know?  Use the SSA form and explain it's been in operation for two years?  What do you think?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yeah, that's a great question.  Yeah, absolutely.  I mean, what you are going to find in a few slides, what I am going to share is that sometimes, especially with SSDI, they don't review your work right away, so it can take them a year or two before they review work anyway.  But it is important to report.  If you didn't know and now you do know, it's important to report.  I would also suggest that if you haven't hooked up with a benefit planner to connect with a benefit planner and talk through your specific situation so that you can kind of think through what the decision ‑‑ what you can expect Social Security will do when you report.  
And so I think I answered that question, essentially like it's okay, go ahead and report.  I mean, that is an important responsibility.  So if you are just now finding out that you need to do that, that's okay.  Just go ahead and do it.  I would also suggest or reiterate that it would be great to talk with a benefit planner.  
And on that same note, I want to go back to something Ciara mentioned, which is that if anybody has a real sort of personal situation and you are trying to figure out how this information applies to it, as I mentioned before, it can be hard to do that; right?  The webinar setting isn't the greatest setting for doing that.  The group setting isn't always great for that, but a webinar setting is even trickier for that.  So we are going to share our information, our contact information, with you, and please know you can reach out to us by email, and I am happy to talk through your situation with you if that would be helpful.  I am happy to help you understand how this information applies to you.  And what I will probably do is also try to help you, just for long‑term support, figure out how you could get connected with a benefit planner in your area.  Because I really want you to have the right support ongoing.  But we can certainly talk through your situation if you'd like.  
Okay.  I think that might be good for the moment, so I am going to keep us going.  Great questions.  Keep them coming.  
All right.  So we talked about reporting the description of the business, and hey, I've started.  This is what's going on.  Now he want to talk with you about this whole idea of reporting net earnings from self‑employment.  Now, initially, when you first open the business, you are going to be projecting net earnings from self‑employment, just to give Social Security a sense of, like, how much do you think you are going to be earning?  Maybe it's a lot, maybe it's a little.  But just to give them a sense of what you are anticipating.  But then also, on an ongoing basis, you are going to eventually want to be reporting your actual net earnings from self‑employment to Social Security.  So for the sake of both of those topics, which I am going to touch on, first I want to make sure you know what net earnings from self‑employment are.  Let's get grounded on that first.  And then we'll talk about projecting.  
Okay.  So net earnings from self‑employment, which we pronounce it by its acronym, NESE.  So NESE is a person's self‑employed earnings.  It's basically a person's earnings when they are self‑employed.  And there's really two steps to calculating what NESE is for a person.  I am just going to walk you through these two steps so you feel like you have a sense of what this is.  
The first step is taking the business revenue, which is really the sales from the business, and subtracting the business expenses, which is really all the things the business has to pay out to make those sales happen.  What's left is called "net profit."  
So let's say for example, we'll go back to Jana, that Jana and her graphic design business, last month she brought in $2500 in sales from all of the billable work she did.  And she spent $1,000 on business expenses.  Could be software and maybe some marketing, maybe her business insurance or licensing fees.  So for Step 1, we would take that $2,500 of business revenue, we would subtract $1,000 of business expenses, and we end up with $1500 of net profit.  So Jana has $1500 of net profit in this particular month.  
The second and the final step in calculating NESE is to take that net profit and multiply it by .9235.  And that little deduction, that .9235 deduction, really just accounts for the fact that a self‑employed person pays more in Social Security taxes than someone who is wage employed.  So after we apply that .9235 deduction, we find in Jana's case that she has $1,385 in net earnings from self‑employment.  That's her NESE for the month.  
Now, for the SSDI program, Social Security really needs the monthly NESE amount so that they can figure out if a person's used a Trial Work Period month and they can figure out after Trial Work Period if a person's work is above or below Substantial Gainful Activity.  
One of the webinars I mentioned we did earlier this year is a webinar that's about NESE and SSDI, essentially what the effect of NESE is on SSDI.  And in that, I explained all the work rules for SSDI.  So I am going to briefly give you a quick little recap so you understand why this monthly NESE is important.  
So when it comes to the SSDI work rules, there's really three phases.  In the first phase, Social Security is giving the person a Trial Work Period, a period to try working and earn any amount and keep the benefit.  It's a great phase.  The Trial Work Period comes to an end when the person has had nine months where their earnings are above the trial work threshold or if they are self‑employed, if they are worked more than 80 hours a month in nine months.  To figure out, they are going to look to see if you've had any NESE over the trial work threshold, which this year is $1030 a month or you've done more than 80 hours in your business.  
Then once the Trial Work Period is over, they are going to look to see if the person's work is above or below the Substantial Gainful Activity.  And they are looking at the monthly work.  So this year, the SGA level is $1470 a month.  For someone who experiences blindness, $2460 month.  So Social Security is going to look at a person's NESE when they are self‑employed to see if they are above or below.  
In the second phase of work rules, if a person's NESE is above, they are not going to do their benefit check‑in that month.  The benefit isn't terminated; it's just paused.  And if their NESE is below the SGA level, they are due the benefit check that month.  So you can see knowing the monthly NESE amount is kind of a key detail for Social Security.  They need to figure out what that is when you are self‑employed, what the monthly amount is.  
I will just briefly say after that second phase, the third phase of work rules, they continue to check to see if earnings are above or below that SGA level.  If earnings are below, the person continues to receive the SSDI.  And if earnings go above, it can cause the SSDI claim to close, the benefit to stop, and it would require a type of reapplication to get it back.  
So again, we have a webinar that goes into all sorts of details about that.  I mean, I just gave you a two‑minute summary, which doesn't do it just to those SSDI work rules.  So Ciara, if you wouldn't mind popping a Chat into the Chat box, popping a link to that particular webinar.  That would be great.  If people are not familiar with those SSDI work rules and you receive SSDI, please check that webinar out.  
For the sake of our time together today, what I want you to get is that Social Security, when you are reporting, is going to want to eventually know what your monthly NESE is.  That's the ‑‑ your annual isn't as important.  It's the monthly that's more key for them.  
So when it comes to reporting, you will be reporting initially some ‑‑ what you are projecting your NESE to be, and ideally you can give a projection of what you expect monthly.  And then we'll get to, in a few slides, once your business is open, you'll eventually report what your actual NESE is each month, if you can.  
Is there anything else?  Let me see.  I guess the only thing I would say about NESE before we move on is in some cases, you might not have the monthly actual.  That's something like I think somebody mentioned, maybe Tiffany mentioned she's been in business for a while and is just now reporting.  If you didn't keep the monthly actuals, Social Security will probably just average it over however many months you were in business over the year.  And they'll even average it if ‑‑ another situation they may average it is if you are in the kind of work where you work for several months and then you get paid, you get your self‑employment ‑‑ you invoice and you get money for the work you did.  You work for several months and you get a chunk of money.  Like let's say for example, let's say Jana, as our graphic designer, let's say she picked up a gig, and she was designing a whole set of brochures and marketing materials.  And it took her three months to develop all of them.  She didn't get paid until she had them all done.  She had three months of work, then suddenly she got paid $5,000.  Well, $5,000 is really for three months of work; right?  It was revenue for three months.  So if that happens with a person's business, that's kind of the nature of how their business works, Social Security will probably average the annual NESE over however many months the person's in business.  So averaging can happen.  Whether it's averaging or they are looking at the actual NESE, that's something you'd want to talk through with Social Security when it comes time for them to do a review on your work, and you can kind of talk through what makes the most sense with your kind of business.  Either way, they've got to come up with a monthly NESE amount to do what they need to do.  
Okay.  Let's ‑‑ let me check in about just the logistics of reporting your projections.  Actually, no, I am going to pause.  Ciara, let me just check in if there's any request about NESE.  Just the concept.  Yeah.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: So someone just asked:  Are you supposed to report NESE monthly?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yeah, so that question is really about the ongoing reporting.  So I am going to hold that, and I am going to come back to that question.  Essentially with SSDI, you are not reporting every month what's happening.  You want to keep a record of your monthly NESE but you are not like every month telling Social Security what it is.  That will hopefully become a little bit clearer when we talk about the ongoing reporting slides.  Right now I just want to make sure everybody feels clear about this whole concept of NESE.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: This is Ciara speaking.  I think we can hold off on the questions until we open it up for more general.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Okay.  That sounds great.  Okay.  Perfect.  
So you get this concept of NESE.  Ideally, that's feeling clear.  So now I want to talk with you about reporting the projection.  This is, again, when you initially open the business.  
Okay.  So here you are.  You are just ‑‑ let's just pretend it's the first month of Janet's business, she is just opening up, and she is start to go do her marketing, and she is planning on bringing in, you know, let's say she is planning on ‑‑ I am going to use the projection from before ‑‑ but $1385 of NESE every month.  Let's say that's the projection, which is the numbers I showed you on the previous slide.  So when she contacts Social Security, she would say hey, I am opening this business, and this is what it is, this is the name of it, and this is what the business is going to do.  And I don't really know how it's all going to shake out.  I am not positive.  But I am hoping that I am going to end up with $1385 of NESE each month, kind of an average.  
So what's true is Social Security, when they get that information, what they'll do is they'll put a flag in their system that says okay, good to know.  We are going to make a point of doing a review on your work activity the beginning of next year once you've got your business tax return done.  In other words, they are generally not going to do a review of Janet's work right then and there because all she has is an estimate.  All she has is a projection.  We don't really know what's going to happen.  Right?  Things could go great, things might not go great.  So Social Security doesn't want to review her work right now because they don't really know what it's going to be.  So generally, they wait and they say, okay, well, we are going to review your work in the beginning of next year after you've done your business tax return.  Then we know for sure what your actual earnings ended up being in that previous year.  
So for somebody, like in Jana's case, who is projecting to have net earnings from self‑employment that's below SGA, and she is expecting that she's still due her SSDI benefit, this system works pretty well.  Right?  She is continuing to receive her SSDI like she expects, and in theory, in the beginning of next year when she submits her tax return, Social Security finds, lo and behold, yes, her NESE was about that amount, and she's still due her SSDI.  
Where this whole system doesn't work so great is where a person's projecting to have really high NESE, where they are projecting to have $3,000 a month, so much that they are really expecting that their SSDI should be stopped.  And if that happens, then a person, they might need to advocate with Social Security to voluntarily suspend their benefit.  So rather than having Social Security wait to do the work review in the beginning of the following year when they have the tax return.  Now, generally a person shouldn't do that, shouldn't ask to have their benefit suspended, just based on what they project because the business may not end up doing as great as projected.  Really, what's best is just for the person to do several months of work in the business, and every month keep a good record of what their income from the business is, their revenue, and their expenses, and see what their net earnings from self‑employment is every month and compare that to SGA and say, hmm, do I think I am still due?  Do I still think I am due the benefit?  And essentially stay kind of a step ahead of what Social Security will be deciding.  And if a person looks like ‑‑ if they've had several months where they've had actual NESE, after they start the business, they have actual NESE that's above the SGA amount, then it could be worth going to Social Security and saying, you know, I projected this was going to happen, and it did actually happen.  And I don't want to end up with an overpayment.  I would rather you voluntarily suspend my benefit.  And that's something that they don't do lightly at Social Security.  It can take some advocacy.  So some people will instead just stock ‑‑ set aside that SSDI benefit, knowing when Social Security does the work review, after the tax return is done, they'll pay that benefit, those benefit payments, back.  
The key thing I would say about this projecting piece is that if you are someone who is projecting to have net earnings from self‑employment that's above the SGA, I highly, highly, highly recommend you get connected with a benefit planner just to help you plan out your steps, to create a plan.  
If you are planning ‑‑ you anticipate having Net Earnings from Social Security that's below SGA, it's not in theory going to change anything about your benefit.  You are going to report.  When you first open your business, you are going to tell them what you think it is.  They are not going to do a work review.  They want to wait until you have the business tax return done.  So you just make sure to turn in your business tax return, and then they would use that information along with some additional details to review your work and confirm, yeah, your work was below SGA.  Then you repeat that year after year.  It's when you are going to have earnings that are above SGA, your NESE is going to be above SGA, that's when I highly recommend working with a benefit planner.  It's a little bit more complicated.  
Okay.  I am going to pause again, checking for questions.  Ciara?  
>> CIARA LADROMA: This is Ciara speaking.  We have quite a few questions.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Great.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Let's start going through them.  The first one is from Sandra, and it asks:  Why is it important to report projections before actual monthly earnings to SSA?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yeah, you know, what I would say is it's just good to give them a sense of what's happening.  And part of it is it  helps them decide when they will likely review your work.  So if you are someone who is projected that your NESE is going to be $200 a month, it's really low, they might even say, you know, we don't want ‑‑ they may push off when they do your work review.  And if your NESE is expected to be like Jana's, $1385, they might say we definitely want to do a work review when you have your tax return done.  So it's mostly for them to make some decision on their end about work reviews.  And I would also say the projections are really important for you to do as well so that you have a sense of whether you are on track with where you are going with your business or not.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Perfect.  Thank you.  
Next question is related to an older slide, but does this change if the business is structured in different ways?  Say I found a business that I draw a set salary from instead of using the money as earnings.  Would they count both the net earnings of the business and my salary?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Great question.  Yeah, so that's a great question, and the answer is yes, there is some difference.  So when you ‑‑ most ‑‑ the vast majority, statistically, the vast majority of most small businesses do not draw salary, do not set themselves up that way, especially single‑owner businesses.  Just because there's a layer of complexity when you set yourself up as an employee.  But if ‑‑ which is why this doesn't even go into that.  But essentially, if you set yourself up as an employee of the business, literally you are set up, like in general, you would have a payroll system or a payroll service, and you are taking a paycheck from that payroll service, and IRS 941 returns are being submitted and 940 returns.  If you are doing all that, then Social Security is generally going to count the wages you take as wage employment.  They get a little confused by this arrangement when you take a salary, and so they may also send you an 820.  They may not.  I have seen it go both ways.  But they may also send you ‑‑ I am so sorry.  They may also send you a work activity report and ask you to report what your net profits are as well.  And if your net profits could arguably have a reflection on your work in any way, then they could count your net profits as a part of your earnings, potentially.  
So for example, in Jana's case, if she took a salary and she only took a salary of $200 a month, and the rest of it carried over as profit, Social Security would say, well, all of the profit is based on your work, and so even though you are not taking it as a salary, it does still reflect your earnings, so they could still count it.  So if you are someone who is taking a salary, I would also suggest talking with a benefit planner just about your situation so you feel like you have a good understanding of it.  But generally, they are going to count your wage, the salary that you take from the business, as wage employment.  Yeah.  So hopefully that helps.  
>> JENNIFER PERRY: I've got one more question for you.  Do they view "owning a business" as the "ability to work?" Especially for longtime disabled business owners?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: No.  Just the fact that you own a business, that alone isn't something where they would say, oh, you own a business; therefore, you no longer meet Social Security's definition of disability.  There's no rule that allows them to jump to that decision like that.  Instead, they do these work reviews, and they look at your work activity as it relates to what you are doing in the business, how much you are earning, and how much you are working in the business.  So just the very fact of owning a business, that alone would not make them say, oh, you are no longer ‑‑ you no longer have a disability.  It's more in the details that they look at.  
And on that note, I am going to get us moving on to some more details of the actual, because that's kind of where that question is going.  If I own a business, what does this mean?  So I am going to move us on, in part because of time.  
So this next slide I am going to take us to is shifting us to sort of the ongoing reporting activities.  
So this one's pretty straightforward.  For the sake of ongoing reporting activities..  when you are self‑employed, you would do a business tax return, and that business tax return is something that you need to submit to Social Security.  That's what they rely on to figure out what your actual earnings are.  So the business tax return might be a Schedule C or a Schedule SE could also be one that you use.  There's a variety of them.  There's if you are in a partnership, I think it's Form 1065.  There's a number of different ‑‑ depends on the business structure you have the specific form you use will differ a little bit.  Sole proprietors for the most part are using a Schedule C or a Schedule SE.  So you don't need to give your whole personal tax return, like your 1040, you don't have to give that to Social Security.  It's your business tax return that they need.  They need to know what your final net earnings were from your business.   
Generally when you are doing that, you do it by bringing it in to the local office.  If you have a god relationship with the local office and you are not concerned it's going to get lost, like you know who to mail it to, you could mail it in, but generally that's something you are giving to the local office.  
Yeah, so that's the business tax return.  That one's pretty straightforward, so I am going to move us on to the next slide, which has way more detail to it and a little deeper thinking, then we can check in about both.  
So I have mentioned this particular concept a couple times now, this idea of a work review.  So in the world of the SSDI benefits, when you work, Social Security doesn't look at your work activity every month and decide what happens to your benefit each and every month.  Does not work that way.  Instead, with the SSDI benefit, what happens is you report when you start working ‑‑ this is true of wage or self‑employment ‑‑ and then they will set a flag in their system a couple months out, six months, nine months, a year, kind of depends on your situation, but they'll set a flag in their system to do what they call a work review.  What happens is they need to wait a period of time because they only look at work that has been done, that's past, that's occurred, previous work.  So they aren't looking at your work each and every month.  They wait a period of time and then they review the work that's been done in the past.  
When you are self‑employed, as I mentioned, you first report you are working, you open this business, they are going to want to wait and do a work review when you've submitted your business tax return.  Because that's when they have verified earnings, your final earnings.  So when you submit that tax return, that usually sets off the reminder in their system to send you paperwork to do a work review.  Now, the work review is Social Security's way of figuring out which phase of work rules you are in, and based on how much you are earning, whether you have used up trial work months or not, if you are beyond the Trial Work Period, if your earnings are above or below the SGA.  So they use this work review to figure out what phase you are in and if you are due your SSDI or not based on your work activity, based on those three phases of work rules and where you are in them.  
Now, to do this work review, Social Security will need a couple things.  They will need that business tax return.  I established that with you.  They are also going to send one of their forms, which is this SSA form 820, which is the self‑employment tax return ‑‑ or I am sorry, oh, my gosh ‑‑ the self‑employment work report.  And Ciara, if you wouldn't mind dropping a link to that SSA‑820 in the chat in case people want to see what it looks like, that would be great.  
On that SSA‑820, it's really a place for the person to share sort of not only some basics about the business, which they would have already reported, but some additional details, like are they getting any extra help running the business, any unpaid help running the business?  Do they have any impaired‑related work expenses?  They'll ask how many hours the person's been working in the business, and they will also ask for those actual monthly net earnings from self‑employment.  They are hoping they can get those details.  If they can't, remember they are going to average most likely.  So that means when it comes to completing this work review, ideally what's happened since you started the business, ideally what's happening is you are keeping good records of actual monthly income, business income, and expenses.  And ideally, you are also keeping a little note somewhere for yourself of how many hours you are working in the business, how much work you are doing.  So that when it comes time to do that work review, when they send that form, you ideally have all your records set up and ready to go for the sake of filling out that form.  
Once you submit all that information, Social Security will look at it, and they'll say okay, let's see.  What were Molly's net earnings from self‑employment, and is she doing SGA‑level work or not ‑‑ assuming she is done with the Trial Work Period ‑‑ and what does that mean for her work benefit, as it relates to the regular old SSDI work rules?  And I know that piece is probably a lot.  I have referred to it several times, so I just want to check in and see if folks have questions about that work review process.  
And Ciara, while you are checking the chat, I do also want to clarify when Social Security does this work review process, it's not a disability review.  So they are not asking about medical improvement or what's happening with a person's disability.  It is purely about the work that's been performed and earnings that have happened.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: I think we can go ahead and save the questions until later, so we can go ahead and keep going forward.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Perfect.  Great, great.  So really, the last ongoing activity around reporting for SSDI I actually just kind of mentioned and alluded to, and that is it's super important to monitor and track what's happening with your monthly net earnings from self‑employment.  And that, I like to suggest doing that because I feel like it's good for ‑‑ it's good just to be a step ahead of Social Security.  And because they are always reviewing a period of work done in the past, it's really ideal if ‑‑ if you are someone receiving benefits, if you are familiar with the rules and you can be every month looking to see what was my net earnings from self‑employment this month?  How did that compare to sort of what I projected?  And more importantly, as it relates to SSDI, is it above or below SGA?  Where am I sitting with my benefit?  
If, as you are tracking this every month, you've got a good recordkeeping system and you are tracking your business revenue and expenses and you are looking at it every month, if you find that business is booming and you are suddenly, like, knocking it out of the ball park and your net earnings from self‑employment are way higher than expected, you might find that you need to go back to Social Security and say holy smokes, things are going really great here, and I know you are not scheduled to do another work review on me for six months or however long it is, but I don't think ‑‑ I think I have hit the point where I am earning so much I am going to end up owing SSDI back, and can you voluntarily suspend it?  That, again, is something they don't do lightly.  So as an alternative, you can also simply set aside that SSDI, knowing that you think you are not going to be due that benefit that month, and so you'll set it aside knowing that eventually they are going to do the work review and they are going to want it.  
Again, anybody who is finding that they are going to be or they are earning above SGA, I highly recommend connecting with a benefit planner to talk through your individual situation.  
Last thing I will say about monitoring is to succeed in doing this, you really have to have a good bookkeeping system.  And really, anybody in business, anybody who is self‑employed needs a good bookkeeping system.  But what that looks like is going to be very different from one person to another.  So it's not like, you know, you have to use one particular kind of bookkeeping system.  It's not like that at all.  Just find something that works for you.  
So if you have a really simple business, like Jana's business is really simple.  She is just providing a service, she is working out of home, she might just be keeping track of her business income and expenses on an Excel spreadsheet.  Or in a notebook.  
Someone who has a more complex business, maybe if I have a food truck or a coffee shop, in that case, likely you are going to have either bookkeeping software or you may even have a bookkeeper that you pay to help you manage the books.  
Everybody's situation is so unique and different.  I just want to stress the importance when you go into self‑employment of figuring out the system that's going to work for you, given you and your business, and get that set up so that you have a good set of books.  You've got good, solid financial records, that you need not only for Social Security purposes but also for reporting your business for IRS purposes and potentially with your state or local government agencies.  There may also be some self‑employment reporting you need to do there.  
All right.  So that ‑‑ those are the key things about reporting.  Just some final tips I would say is it's helpful to take a little bit of time and create some projections around what you expect for net earnings from self‑employment, mostly for yourself so you have a sense of what you foresee happening and how that might or might not affect your benefit.  
Incredibly important to create a record.  Keep records of actual business revenue, business expenses, and also hours worked in the business.  And that doesn't need to be anything fancy.  That could simply be, you know, this week, make a note somewhere, you have somewhere every week you make a note of worked five hours in the business, worked ten hours in the business, worked eight hours in the business, worked thirty, whatever it is.  
I also highly recommend every month, if not at least once a quarter, taking a look at what your actual net earnings from self‑employment are and comparing them to the SGA level to see where you are at.  And that is so that you can be a step ahead of Social Security.  Remember, they are not looking at your work every month and making a decision about what's happening with your benefit every month.  They go for a whole period of time, and then they look back and see what happened.  So it's ideal if you can just kind of stay a step ahead of them and see what your earnings are compared to that SGA.  
Each year, do that business tax return.  Super, super, super important for multiple reasons.  But also, you'll need to submit that to Social Security.  And then, of course, when Social Security determines that it makes sense to do a work review, they'll send that SSA form 820.  Just make sure to fill that out with all the details that you've ideally been recording along the way.  And reach out to a benefit planner with any questions or concerns.  You need any help in understanding how to do this reporting part of the process and you want some individual one‑on‑one help, benefit planners can be helpful for that.  
Okay, Ciara, what have you got for final questions?  
>> CIARA LADROMA: All right.  This is Ciara speaking.  So Sandra asked:  Say a person is in the Ticket to Work program.  Their monthly net earnings is over the monthly threshold under the Trial Work Period or extended period of eligibility.  Do they suspend benefit checks for retroactive information after the year the beneficiary submitted their earnings?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: So the fact that the person is in the Ticket to Work program, when it comes to the work rules, doesn't matter.  It is irrelevant.  So sort of let that part go.  In terms of suspending the benefit, what Social Security does, with SSDI, they are always looking back.  Right?  They are looking back at however, maybe it's a month ‑‑ or I am sorry, maybe it's six months, maybe it's a year, maybe it's two years, maybe it's five years.  When they look back, sort of imagine they kind of like run down to the beginning of that period, and then from the start of that period that they are reviewing, they compare it to see is this trial work month?  Are she used trial work months?  If so, then yep, those are counted as trial work months.  After the trial work is over, they check to see oh, has this person moved into phase two?  So they just apply all the work rules back to ‑‑ as the work rules are based on the work rules.  I am sorry if I am not answering that question very well.  I guess in essence, yes, they do use it retroactively.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Next question is about impairment‑related work expenses.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yeah.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: Can these reduce your earnings when you are self‑employed?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yes, they can.  Impairment‑related work expenses do reduce countable earnings.  They can potentially reduce countable earnings from self‑employment below SGA.  Just keep in mind that an expense that was claimed as a business expense cannot also be an IRWE.  So it's really ‑‑ those are just going to be impairment‑related work expenses that are not business deductions.  So copays for doctors' appointments or prescriptions are examples of what could be IRWEs.  
Ciara, let's take one more, then I think we might be out of time.  I might need to tackle the rest via email.  
>> CIARA LADROMA: The last one is can you use back years loss in your business to pay back showing you are paying back so you aren't showing a profit yet?  
>> If you have loss and you are showing for like five years I paid out this much and now I am starting ‑‑ let's say you paid out $500, and then you've now made $500, but that was like two years ago, and now you are paying your account back, but you are not making a profit because you just paid your account back.  Does that make sense?  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: So what I would say is when it comes to net earnings from self‑employment, which is what you are asking about, and how that's calculated, it's really based on the IRS rules.  So however it shakes out for IRS rules in terms of your net profit, that's what they are going to go by.  So in some cases, if you have had a loss, you can depreciate that over future years, but I am not an accountant, so I can't answer that question.  I would just say the default, it always comes back to how the IRS would be calculating your net profit, and then that's basically the foundation for what your NESE is.  
And Nicole, email me if that was totally on the wrong track and I missed your question, and we can talk about it more.  
>> Where are your email addresses if you don't mind me asking.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Yeah, Ciara, would you be willing to pop those in the Chat box?  She is on it.  You guys had so many great questions, I don't normally need all this time, and I am out of it.  I am going to kick it over to Lexi and/or Nicki to share information about upcoming events.  
>> LEXI JONES: Thank you, Molly.  We will quickly go through some things, then I will email out all of the links to everybody who is here by the end of the week so that we don't keep anybody too long.  
But I did really want to highlight that in less than two weeks, the small business biggest event of the year will be the 2023 Small Business Disability‑Owned Convening.  It's an incredible chance, it's three days, fully virtual, fully accessible, and free thanks to our sponsors.  I did pop a link in the Chat for you to register.  But it's a great chance to connect with other business owners, with funders, with subject matter experts, and if you go to that link, you'll see the full agenda there with all of the sessions laid out.  The other great thing to remember is if you can't attend live, registering gives you access to all of the materials and recordings for 60 days after the event.  So it's worth registering even if you can't attend in person because then you'll get everything that's available for 60 days after.  That's our next big event, starts October 31 and runs through November 2.  
We also have a webinar coming up with GHA, our last one of the year, on November 15, on blending funding for self‑employment.  Like I said, I will make sure all the links are in our follow‑up email.  
Next slide, please.  
I will include all of this information in that follow‑up email also rather than trying to read it all to you in a second.  So you will get an email in the next two days with all of this information, different resources, free opportunities we have for self‑paced learning, the link to our mailing list and emails for everybody on the team.  
This is our Small Business team, our Director Ruth, our Small Business Community Navigator.  Caroline is our Small Business Specialist.  And I am Lexi Jones, the Small Business Coordinator.  
And the last slide just shows a new initiative at NDI, which is the Equity Ally Pledge.  If you will go to the next slide for me.  And it's a pledge you can take.  It gives you a badge to add to your website.  And it just shows you are dedicated to inclusion and to accessibility.  It gives some pointers for how to really achieve those goals and then share that you have committed to them.  
So thank you all very much for joining us today.  I saw lots of comments in the chat of how informative and helpful this session was.  It will be on our website.  The recording, the slides, and the transcript will be available in the next one to two weeks.  And then we've also been putting a lot of our webinars onto YouTube, so it will be there in the next few months, but you can check our website in the next two weeks for you.  And ‑‑ for it.  And you will get an email with a link to find all the emails.  Thank you, Molly and Ciara, and thank you, everyone, for attending.  
>> MOLLY SULLIVAN: Thanks, everyone.  Take care.  
>> LEXI JONES: Take care, everyone.  

(End of session, 3:32 p.m. ET.) 

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